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Topic Title: Re-train outside dog to be an inside dog.
Created On Thu January 31, 2008 11:21 PM
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LoneWolf1038
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Thu January 31, 2008 11:21 PM
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Hi, I recently rescued a 1½ yr old shep/mal mix from a shelter just before they were gonna put him down. He is a beautiful dog! I have a 12 yr old Flat coated retreiver that I have had since he was 6 wks old, so we know each other pretty well.

This new dog, named Kody, is apparently an outside dog. He wants to spend all his time outside, which is really not the reason I decided to bring him home with me. I figure my other dog is getting old, and I thought by introducing another dog into the family now would be good for all of us. It would help me when the time comes that my "Beau Bear" crosses the Rainbow Bridge to have Kody there with me. I thought it would perk up Beau having another dog around him (and that has worked to a degree). And I thought that Kody could "learn" some things from Beau.

Kody does NOT want to come inside. He comes in at 7pm for dinner and then wants to go back out. He comes back in at 9pm for his "ice cream" (yogurt) break. I try to get him to stay inside from 9 until last call around midnight. I go out with him and make sure he does his business, and then the three of us come in and settle in for the night. Well, around 3am Kody decides he wants to go out, and won't come back in. My other dog doesn't go out again until morning.

I am on my last nerve. I want so much for him to become an inside dog, which I think boils down to he needs a schedule of some kind, but I don't know how go about it. Any ideas and help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance
 
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retrievergoldengurl
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Fri February 01, 2008 5:37 AM
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Time and more time. Your greatest gift to this dog is patience. He's the mental equivalent of an 18 year old boy so there is a little angst in his life even without being plonked in a shelter which is very stressful. Now he's at a new place with a new step parent. Holy cow!!! Gain his trust with your patience. This is not his fault but it is your responsibility to help him through as you would a child. He still IS a puppy. Crate training will help him feel secure and take the stress off you a bit.

If this dog was in a shelter then he may have been turned in because he was neglected and left alone outside a lot through his formative months. It may always be a big or little part of his personality so you need to understand his perspective a bit. Alone may be comforting for now. Or maybe due to lack of exercise this is where he's getting all of his stimulation. Redirect that need with activities you both do.

A crate in the house he can come and go from may be a nice little den for him to retreat to where you don't bother him. I assume if he came from a shelter that he is neutered and not being lured outside by his hormones. Is he house trained?? If not start potty training now with the crate if he is crate him at night if you are sure he doesn't need to potty just leave him crated until it's to get up. Crate training done correctly is the most stabilizing thing for a fearful, unsure, new, or young dog. It gives them a haven or den to retreat into which may be why he's going back out at night.

First check with the vet and be sure there is no medical reason like a UTI, prostate, thyroid, or other problem that might make him need to go out more often. Next what are you feeding him, maybe he's uncomfortable, gassy, bloated (ice cream)? Maybe TMI but it makes me gassy any time I eat it and it's not comfortable. He may be lactose intolerant like me or allergic.

You say recent adoption, how recent? It takes most dogs at least 8 weeks to habituate to a new environ. A shy or unsocialized dog maybe longer. Remember dogs LOVE habit and routine. Try to make everything like meals, potty, exercise the same time. Remember too that though dogs learn from one another they don't learn anything about you from each other. That's your job. Find something he likes to do and do it with him. Being part GSD and part Mal he's going to be happy with a job and being exercised. Fetch could be his job, long walks, and some tricks whatever he loves and you also enjoy. This is not an ornamental dog he's a young active one. If he's more tired at night he'll be more apt to want to stay in. He is at his core a working shepherd/draft dog and needs to be stimulated. It will enforce his bond with you and make being with you FUN and pleasurable. Don't count on sweet Beau to do your job.

Maybe too rethink ice cream late at night---dairy intolerance, dog's lesser ability to handle some milk products and additives, sugar buzz, and late eating may be upsetting his digestive tract. What are you feeding? If it's a low quality food it may also be adding to your problems. An early meal around 5-7 pm should better ensure he doesn't need to go out until morning. I would also feed a dog his age, breed and size two times a day to prevent bloat and with the smaller meal at night help prevent weight gain as he ages. Just remember exercised dog = tired dog = happy dog.

You asked for example schedule
5am get up-Kody potty
501 take Kody for a brisk walk-Kody potty
545 return from walk wait an hour to eat
645 breakfast-Kody potty
every 3-4 hours he needs a potty break or after play or a nap
go about your day and take several 5-10 minute breaks throughout the day to teach him to shake or sit keep it short
set a time for an afternoon walk or long play session 20-45 minutes longer=better
Kody potty wait at least an hour to eat
6pm dinner-Kody potty
9-10pm Kody potty
12am last call Kody potty and crate until 5am

If you're up until midnight you may get up later---I'm asleep by 9pm and up by 5am so adjust. At 18 months he should be able to go the night without an outside trip unless there is a medical reason. If you aren't familiar with correct crate training and size there are loads of books and a trainer or class would benefit this dog enormously. The best way to fix an unsocialized dog is to socialize him and make people fun. My dogs so love their classes I've been going non-stop for 3 years and I love it too.

I do wish you much luck with your new boy. Bless you for saving him, he's a lucky boy!!



-------------------------
"Dogs live most of life
in Quiet Heart
Humans live mostly next door
in Desperate heart
Now and then will do you good
To live in our zip code."
Trixie Koontz (the dog) from A Little Big Life, A Memoir of a Joyful Dog by Dean Koontz
Retrievergoldengurl
NOT A BRAD PATTISON FAN since bullies are cowards in my book.
NOT A DON SULLIVAN FAN since this system advocates muzzling to humble and pain to train all things, how do I explain that to my puppy?

Edited: Fri February 01, 2008 at 6:03 AM by retrievergoldengurl
 
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LoneWolf1038
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Fri February 01, 2008 9:26 AM
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Thank you for the great response! Kody actually slept til 5 this morning! It is raining cats and dogs, so he has been lying on the porch sleeping. I just convinced him to come inside and sleep on his bed, which he didn't really argue about.

Crate training is difficult because he refuses to go in the crate! I have a nice clean blanket it in there, and it is in the living room where he can see what is going on around him, yet far enough away from the main action for a little privacy for himself. He refuses to go in it! He seems terrified of it, and I am afraid making him afraid of anything else I do, or of me (thinking I would do something to hurt him etc) keeps me from "forcing" him in and slamming the door behind him like a jailer. Doesn't seem right to do that to the poor guy. I do not know what circumstances he has endured before he came to his forever home, but I do not want to re-create any if I can help it.

As far as "ice cream" goes, it's what I call it. It's "Beau & Kody's Ice Cream", but it's really plain yougurt. Beau has had some serious yeast overgrowth conditions that all the vets dianosed as "allergys to something" and left it at that. One of the things I learned is the value of plain yogurt for the health of their digestive and intestinal tract. I have given Beau yogurt for about 5 months now, along with some other things......and you would NOT know the difference it has made!!! Looks like two entirely different dogs! I have pictures if anyone wants to see, but please...if you get the "allergy" route from a vet....don't settle. There IS a way to clear him up, and believe me, Beau was one of the worst! Sorry for rambling, but I am so excited by Beau's progress, and I KNOW there are other dogs out there that have been told they have an allergy to "something" and it's not an allergy at all....I just had to tell you about it and offer to show you the pictures I took before and after as proof.

Anyway, back to Kody....as far as food......I feed him Avoderm. With Beau's yeast problem, I had to switch foods, so I started with Atremis which was wonderful, but a bit too pricy when I added Kody to the household. I have still found a "natural" food without the grains, etc....called Avoderm. Yes, it's still up there on the price scale I guess compared to store brand foods...but that's ok for "my kids" price is secondary to their well-being.

I liked your schedule......now all I have to do is get him inside for all of that.

You are right......I realize I must have the patience of Job, and it will take time. He came to live here about Dec 22. We pulled him from a shelter in CT 45 minutes before they were gonna Euth. him, and it took him two weeks in transport to get him from CT to SC, and I gotta feel it was well worth his trip, if he will let me love him! He HAS gotten better at trusting me, because when he first came here.....he was afraid of EVERYTHING, even ME! Now, he's turning into a lover (sort of...when HE wants)...but that's fine too.

At the same time, I worry about my companion of 12 years getting jealous if I fuss over Kody too much since Beau has been an "only child" for all that time. I know Kody needs extra attention, but how do I keep Beau from being jealous or feeling like he is "being replaced" by a younger guy?

I truly AM trying to do the right thing for BOTH of them....
 
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retrievergoldengurl
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Mon February 04, 2008 4:18 PM
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As for getting him inside I suggest using a drag line. A 10-20 foot leash with the loop cut off so it won't catch on things. If he won't come in you can just step on the leash and pull gently while luring with a really good meaty stinky treat like liver, stew beef, chicken, turkey wieners, etc. If he is also scared of the leash or being pulled do NOT EVER pull him. Calmly step on and take the leash in hand, walk down the leash and gently urge or lure him in with food. Better even to get behind and let him go first by throwing treats ahead or leaving a bread crumb trail to the door. Yes it takes more patience but will eventually work.

You might also leave that trail into the house and go back inside leaving the door open and ignore him. Do NOT look or make eye contact, do not talk or entice, do not reassure. Take the pressure off and see if he will come in on his own. Most of all don't rush. Try hiding really wonderful treats in his crate and make sure Beau can't go steal them. Use Beau as sort of a role model. Run around the kitchen and act silly and excited about going outside trailing chicken after you. Get Beau to chase you out and lavish praise with rewards and I bet Kody will be watching. But don't look. This was my biggest success strategy for a very fearful foster pup. She thought, "well nobody is looking I better just go see what's the big deal. OH yes chicken is everywhere. I like this." You don't need to say GOOD or even a quiet good at this point. The idea is pressure off and center stage is off.

As for Beau getting jealous dogs don't really go there the same way people do. Make sure he gets his alone time with you and some extra brushing or petting. This could be when Kody is outside being "lone wolf." (my term) I've had two dogs that liked their lone wolf time but were cuddle bugs the rest of the day. I make each dog respect my time with the other and not butt in between during brushing or petting. The other dog always gets a turn. I use brushing as a bonding thing and I do it every day needed or not because they like it. The same with exercise or training. I do suggest you teach Kody some tricks and set him up to succeed and gain confidence. Relaxation with you a few times a day like a gentle stroking or brushing is also very good. Beau gets some too remember.

If he is truly terrified do consider taking him to a CAAB or CPDT (certified applied animal behaviorist or certified pet dog trainer) with CAAB being preferred. Go to www.certifiedanimalbehaviorist.com or www.apdt.com for info. At this age Kody's fears are more easily overcome but they will get worse not better if not attended to correctly. After dealing with many fearful dogs and making my share of mistakes I've learned volumes. What works to reassure humans often scares a fearful dog so it's very illogical to most people how to respond correctly. You have a puppy window for forming critical neurological responses to stimuli and it starts very early. Kody is already older than is optimal but he's still a puppy so take advantage of training and socialize him correctly with help.

Remember he may regress in life as my 3 year old has but I have good CAAB help and progress already since Friday. The reason I suggest professional help is the crate terror. Extreme fear can turn into aggression which you can prevent and is the best thing for Kody. You would send your kid to a tutor if he was ADD and failing math right? Same thing, qualified, competent, researched, reputable doctors with references and interviews. Bad trainers for fearful dogs are baaaaad. I stress it a lot but I feel it's so important. I always feel more brains working on a problem are better than mine alone.

After all this I do commend your time, caring, and effort. I know how hard you are trying and know there may be a shorter easier road with a flatter slope if you get a good CAAB. I can also tell you are applying a little human psychology to your dogs which further tells me how much you care. They aren't human though and sometimes your depth of caring doesn't work because you are applying the things you most like to feel better. And you are human. Please to resist the urge to isolate and "protect" Kody and get him out there the right way with the right tools. All you have to gain is a happier dog.

A CAAB in Colorado and Texas is about $70-$250 per hour to multi hour consult with months to years of follow up by phone, email, or in person. So for the cost of a year's vaccines for both dogs you get 10-15 years of happy socially adjusted dog. It's not as big of a deal as a lot of folks think on hearing the CAAB title. Pet them both for me and good luck. Ask if you need more, there are lots of kind posters to this site with great advice.


-------------------------
"Dogs live most of life
in Quiet Heart
Humans live mostly next door
in Desperate heart
Now and then will do you good
To live in our zip code."
Trixie Koontz (the dog) from A Little Big Life, A Memoir of a Joyful Dog by Dean Koontz
Retrievergoldengurl
NOT A BRAD PATTISON FAN since bullies are cowards in my book.
NOT A DON SULLIVAN FAN since this system advocates muzzling to humble and pain to train all things, how do I explain that to my puppy?
 
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AllGoodDogs
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Thu February 07, 2008 11:45 AM
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Put something delicious in the back of the crate like a small piece of steak. Let the dog go in and get it and come back out if he wishes. Do this often. Later put the food in there but shut the door the crate door so that he has to spend some time really wanting to go in there...
 
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AllGoodDogs
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Thu February 07, 2008 3:18 PM
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I thought of another thing. Feed the dog from your hands inside. Break the meal up into as many handfuls as time or the dogs hunger allows you. That way being inside with you is a good thing.
 
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RottieWoman
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Fri February 08, 2008 6:28 AM
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Also - jackpot randomly just for going in the house, as well as just BEING in the house. So he'll never know how much or with what he will get treated in relation the house. Don't treat outside.

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Rottie Mommy in WI - USA
 
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